Question (arising from K.V. Johansen's *Nightwalker*)

[lady_schrapnell]

Just finished this last night, and I liked it quite a bit, but didn't feel a burning love.  I was telling steepholm  that I thought the way the humans - who have always proclaimed the Nightwalkers (magic users) to be EVIL - must be destroyed! - burn them all!  etc - actually turn out to be the land-stealers, torturers and murderers of long standing themselves - a bit less subtle than it might be.  Actually, I'm not sure I told him that at all, but I definitely told him that it belonged to a large group of books in which there is one story told by society, and that is that some group or other is inferior, dangerous or pure evil.  And of course the whole plot-line leads the protagonist to find out that at best, the group feels the same about his/her people or the whole thing is reversed.  But having come up with Malorie Blackman's Noughts and Crosses, and together managing Diana Wynne Jones' Power of Three, I blanked out, while remaining sure there are gazillions of books which do something like this. 

Help?

Only interested in fantasy, and only in children's or YA.  And only in a society in which the prejudice is against a whole group of people (so I'm not talking about individual prejudice as in Crown Duel or DWJ's The Ogre Downstairs). Left Hand of Darkness territory. 

Incarceron by Catherine Fisher, maybe.  (I did think of the Book of the Crow series, which -- well, complicated a bit, but sort of work.)
 
Shannon Hale in Enna Burning and River Secrets?  Not sure about the group aspect, though the number of individuals with magic seems to be growing with each successive book.

The Bartimaeus Trilogy? (It's scary how much I've forgotten about that.) Not sure if it's more your standard corrupt politicians (who happen to have got more power through being magicians) eventually being shown to be corrupt ,which isn't what I'm looking for.

Patricia Wrede's Dragons series?  It's sort of a toss-up between those being inverted fairy tales, which isn't quite what I'm thinking of, and  working perfectly, with the dragons, princes and witches of those fairy tales being totally misrepresented. 

Mercedes Lackey does this in spades, I suspect, but I can't remember whether the books of hers I borrowed were adult or YA. (Uh, borrowed from dorianegray, not borrowed from Mercedes Lackey!)

Blank. Blank. Blank. But still sure about the gazillions.

Comments

[amomandagirl.livejournal.com]

Zilpha Keatley Snyder's Green Sky trilogy.

[lady-schrapnell.livejournal.com]

Oh, thanks! I haven't read those, at least I don't think I have, but they sound exactly right.

[hafren.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure you can separate out "only fantasy", mainly because the first example of "young protagonist finding out society doesn't always get it right" that comes to my mind is Huckleberry Finn and I suspect that a vague memory of that has influenced many a children's writer in another genre.

[lady-schrapnell.livejournal.com]

Oh, I just said that because steepholm is working on something about children's fantasy. We already had to toss out quite a few examples that are too SF.

[vierran45.livejournal.com]

I'm not 100% sure of these since it's been ages since I read them:

C. S. Lewis: Narnia books, especially The Horse and His Boy and Last Battle, where entire nations were doomed as evil.

Lackey's Gryphon trilogy could work. There is mistrust between a nation of dark-skinned humans and the group of magical refugees formed of humans and non-humans, though in the end they do make an alliance.

Gail Garson Levine's Ella Enchanted.

Maybe some early Patricia C. Wrede. I'm thinking of books like Shadow Magic, Daughter of Witches, and Caught in Crystal.

I'm sure there are countless others, but these are all I can think of at the moment.

[lady-schrapnell.livejournal.com]

Thanks! And sorry for sharing the frustration around. I'll have to think about Ella Enchanted, as I've realised I remember a brilliant total of ONE thing about it. Haven't read the Gryphon trilogy, and will have a look.

[dorianegray.livejournal.com]

The main thing I can think of like that in Lackey's work is the situation between Valdemar and Karse - Valdemar has a saying that "the only things that come out of Karse are bad weather and brigands"; and the Karsites believe that the Valdemarans are all witches and demon-worshippers. Both sides get over their enmity in the "Storm" trilogy.

(The "Arrows" trilogy, which I lent you, could plausibly be categorised as YA, but I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere other than the adult shelves.)

David Eddings does it in the Belgariad and the Mallorean, between the countries that worship Torak and those that worship all the other gods - the realising "we're all just people, really" comes in the Mallorean. The Belgariad, at least, is often shelved in YA these days.

Hm. How about DWJ's "The Magicians of Caprona"?

[lady-schrapnell.livejournal.com]

Interesting about Lackey's publishing history, isn't it? I suspect if she'd just started recently and come out with the Arrows trilogy, they'd have been YA and no question. Thanks for the Eddings - that sounds just right.

Magicians of Caprona is interesting, as it sort of stands between DWJ's more common take of one-on-one misunderstandings and Power of Three's groups of people ones. They are big families!

[generalblossom.livejournal.com]

I did not reply when i saw this because I wanted to think it through - I got the nastiest feeling that there is something I should remember but just not seeing. Maybe some of Gillian Bradshaw´s children books, maybe the Nubian ones, except I need a reread, I don´t remember them well enough! ( as a theme, it sounds awfully Bradshaw-ish so maybe I am inventing it) Trying to think of Eva Ibbotson also for some reason, but without any specific notion.

[lady-schrapnell.livejournal.com]

That's the feeling I have too. Along with the not remembering books well enough one! I haven't read the Nubian Bradshaws, but they sound right, and the theme is even in Beyond the North Wind to a degree. (WHY are her children's books not better known?!) And yes, Eva Ibbotson -- she does it to the reader a lot, doesn't she? Turning the 'evil wizard' into the sympathetic hero looking for a nice (wicked) wife. Or the lovable ghosts who worry about not being terrifying enough...