lady_schrapnell | (no subject)

Still mentally hopping around over the conversation with Wendy of Blog from the Windowsill, and it got me thinking about those great not-so-likable-but-you-still-love-them characters (especially female ones), and wondering if Mary of The Secret Garden is the first in children's lit or if I'm missing someone obvious. She'd a grown-up counterpart in Emma, of course, but can't think of any other children earlier. I'm not talking about horrible kid who gets slapped around by life, and learns lessons aplenty, becoming saintly (despite the sarcastic tone, I do love What Katy Did in all its sappy goodness - surely one of the quintessential Slap 'em up and Make Them Good books). And I'm also not talking about Underdog who's got to be forgiven for being a bit dim at times because of the Underdoggery...

Mary learns, and gets less selfish, of course, but she doesn't become a little princess, either, does she? And in not doing so, did she do anything pave the way for favourite not very nice girls like Harriet the Spy? (Okay, nobody is quite like Harriet!)

Started thinking about this because of Christina in the Flambards books, and her possible likeness to Mary (even if I'm the sole believer in this theory), and then I came up with Dicey, in Cynthia Voigt's Tillerman books. She's a wonderful character - tough and prickly and driven and has to be all those things to survive and take care of her family - and then comes Seventeen Against the Dealer and it's just so horribly painful as a reader to see all the less-than-nice aspects of her character take over and cause so much pain to the people she (and we) really care about. But not at all out of character.

Rose, of Permanent Rose fame... Just thought of her.

Melting down with exhaustion, but if anyone would like to contribute characters while I try to sleep - feel free.

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Mmm. Wondering about Alice? (The wonderland one, of course, not the junkie.)

I don't think of Alice as being that un-nice, though it's been a long time since I've read her, admittedly. Is she?

Well, not un-nice, exactly; but not exactly nice, either! She generally has good manners, and she's certainly nicer than the people she meets, I guess; but I don't remember her doing anything generous or kind to or for anyone. And although she's very curious, I don't think she's sympathetic. But it's been a while for me, too!

Yeah, I'm ruling Alice right out! I've reread up to the tea party now, and she'd have to be sickly-saintly in order not to get cross as she has sometimes. And wants to be nice to the puppy - what more proof of nice do you want? We're looking for characters a lot non-nicer than just not-entirely-ready-for-sainthood. (Elegant sentence, eh?)

I always hated Harriet. Though I just named a computer after her.

Did you ever read the John Christopher books?

No - shameful admission #997 - I've never read a single book by John Christopher.

I like the idea of a PC that spies on instead of being spied upon... well, in the right hands, of course!

Belinda from _Miss Happiness and Miss Flower_ and _Little Plum_ by Rumer Godden_ - rough, tough, even mean sometimes. And her direct descendent, the main character of _Stand in the Wind_ by Jean Little, who is pretty disconcerted to be told she's like Belinda. (Though in truth, she's much milder.)

I don't remember 17AtD at all, but I can see Dicey causing trouble. Anyone that tough and determined and protective of her family can easily go the wrong way, trying to be protective.

Hey, do you want to start a "tough girls" or "tough kids" list, or shall I?

-- Wendy

I don't remember 17AtD at all, but I can see Dicey causing trouble. Anyone that tough and determined and protective of her family can easily go the wrong way, trying to be protective.

Possibly worse - she completely zones out on family and Jeff because she gets so caught up in her boat-building business.

Hey, do you want to start a "tough girls" or "tough kids" list, or shall I?

You probably get more traffic, so let's move it over to your place. (Will comment there as I don't suppose you'll get email notification of this.)

Okay! I thought of another - Turtle from _the Westing Game_. -- Wendy

Oh, and whassername in The Painted Garden, of course! Who really is 'after Mary', isn't she?... Streatfeild has a few altogether, doesn't she? Will do this properly in the morning, and post on BftW right. (Time-difference strikes again.)